We're sitting in a restaurant in Baltimore after David's class at the
Peabody Conservatory, and his recital last night. We are having dinner with
about 20 students. Manuel has long wanted to do an "interview" with
David, pick his brains a little bit. Here is a transcription of the
conversation.
Manuel Barrueco: Is it my
imagination or did I see your little finger shaking a little bit last night?
David Russell: I always
shake a little bit just to make sure that the audience and the guitarists know
that I'm not using beta blockers... (laughter)
MB: I wasn't expecting that answer.
DR: You're supposed to ask me if I can expand on that...
MB: Can you expand on that, please?
DR: I always get a little bit nervous when friends like
you are in the audience. I want to play well and it puts a little bit of extra
pressure. Sometimes I will finger things so that I don't have too many open
strings. I hate having all the fingers in the air because they will all shake
like hell, so I'll stick down fingers in odd places on notes that I'm not going
to play even though I'm not particularly nervous. It doesn't seem to cause any
great problems unless I get REALLY nervous, but it's a tremor that has been
there since I was young. I've learned to live with it and it doesn't really
cause me any problems. But I hate the fact that the first row or the first few
people or sometimes even the whole audience can see it. I really don't like
that, I wish it didn't happen. If they see it they sometimes think "He
must be nervous, his fingers are shaking" even when I'm not particularly
nervous my fingers shake a little bit, it's just the excitement of the situation.
I kind of like the challenge of a little bit of nerves.... it gives me
an extra something. We concert players are a little bit like race-car drivers
or mountain climbers, we do it because it's dangerous, except that we don't put
our lives in danger, we just put our ego on the line. It's my challenge in life
to do a concert as well as I can. Ok? expanded?
David continues: ... and I mentioned the joke about beta blockers, I've
never taken them, never tried them. I've asked a few doctors about them and it
is a subject, that if anyone is interested in taking them, they should always
discuss it with a doctor first. I joked about it before, but it is really a
serious thing.
MB: Have you done any other drugs....? No, just joking. I
think that sometimes people that don't play concerts think that we don't get
nervous. What was happening to me yesterday in your concert, was that I felt
nervous before you came out. I was nervous for you. Then, all of a sudden, I
was nervous for myself. I was thinking: "Oh my God, I'm going to have to
do this..., why am I doing this to myself [playing concerts]? Am I crazy?"
It's an incredible fear.
DR: We should really think quite harder about why we do
it. We sometimes joke that there is a better way of making a living, but on the
other hand there is something exciting about doing something that has a touch
of danger, or that we feel a touch of danger, and that we are laying ourselves
on the line. I really quite enjoy that challenge. It gives you a reason to get
up in the morning, a reason to move forward and try again or try better. We're
lucky, when it goes well it's great, we get our egos stroked a lot, people say
lots of nice things, audience are clapping for you and standing up. It's a
really great high, and it's fun! But, it means that we have to continuously do
things to maintain that. This is looking at it from a selfish point of view,
regardless of whether you're in music or something else. Being on stage doing
something that gets this kind of communication going, you find that you're
actually manipulating people's feelings. You're doing something with music that
makes them feel something within the music, that if you didn't do it, they
wouldn't be able to feel it.
MB: What do you do to manage your nerves?
DR: I get really upset when I do have an off night. It's
really not a nice feeling, very upsetting, embarrassing or whatever . But if I
have done my work and I've done my best, my conscious is clear, I feel ok, at
night I sleep. I've done my best and that's very important.
When I do mess up, instead of having this massive bad reaction and
whipping myself and getting angry, I try to keep my mind on: "It's really
sad that the people haven't been able to enjoy this phrase and the music so
much". I have to avoid thinking: "The people haven't been able to
think so much of me". If you keep that in mind, it avoids this thing about
you being on a test. Also, when it goes well, I try to think: "It's great
that you were able to hear how great this phrase could be".
For example [to a student] you played Barrios' Julia Florida in the
class today. I know the first time you didn't play it so well and that you can
play it better, but there were some bits that were great. So, as soon as you
hit the good bit you have to say to yourself: "Oh that was great"!
It's a strange thing that happens, you sit at home and practice and it's late
at night and you say: "Oh this sounds great!" But you sit on stage
and you say:" Oh that sounds horrible!" It's the wrong way! It should
be that at home one is concentrating on practicing, and when in front of an
audience you should think: "Beautiful piece, beautiful moment". You
mess one up, but so what? The next one will be better. For me this is really
important , it's very easy to be negative with yourself.
MB: We've talked about this often [to the student], when
you see someone making a mistake and they get very angry and punish themselves.
It seems like a humble thing but in fact it's not! One thing that helps me a
lot, is to realize that I am going to make mistakes, so when I make one I'm not
going to punish myself because I never expected perfection to begin with!
DR: I haven't heard you make one...
MB: Well I did, it was nineteen eighty...... (laughing)
it took a lot of alcohol to get over that one.
DR: No, but you're absolutely right, and sometimes people
make faces and I must say I've sometimes done it, but I've basically gotten rid
of it. When you make a face, it's a bit like telling the audience: "I
don't normally make mistakes!" It's silly, you only transmit your bad
feeling to the audience. Next question!
MB: What happens when you're playing, for example, a
piece like the Prelude, Fugue and Allegro [Bach], which everybody knows?
DR: [Laughs] ...
MB: No, really, I'm not putting you on the spot. Let me
tell you a story, the first time I played it it was in Japan, and my agent was
waiting for me when I got off stage, and he said: "Oh..... Prelude, Fugue
and... Andante"
[lots of laughs from David] Obviously when you're playing something the
audience knows very well, and especially if you're in a certain position the
people expect a certain level...
DR: Yeah, when you play a well known piece,
unfortunately, you've got to nail it! It is a different kind of challenge than
when you play a lesser known piece, especially if it's the PF&A because
it's one of the pieces that many, many people know.
If I feel that a lot of other interpretations of a piece are stronger
than mine, I probably won't play it. At least until I find that my
interpretation is valid enough, or strong enough, or different enough. There
are some modern pieces that I feel that other people play better than I do, so
I don't play them! Maybe one day if I really put my heart into it, I will be
able to play them well enough that I feel that my contribution is worth it.
Then I'll do it. With the PF&A I feel that my version is valid enough and
personal enough for people to really enjoy it, and I feel that I play the piece
well enough to where I'm going to be satisfied.
MB: So now you're at the concert and you're going to play
one of these pieces.... because you've had this process beforehand, by the time
you go to play the piece you're not aware of the fact that you're going to play
something everybody knows?
DR: I understand what you mean, and no, I don't really
think that's in my mind. I'm really not that aware of it. It's not so much if
people have heard Pepe Romero or Manuel Barrueco play it. It's more like if you
play something all the students play, which are often half your audience. I
really don't like on the day of a concert or the day before, to do a master
class where some of my repertoire is played in the class. I don't really like
it. Today some people played the PF&A I played yesterday, and I felt
completely free to be flexible and to work within that person's way of
interpreting it. If it was the day of a concert or the day before I'm going to
play it, they would have to do it my way! Then I'm not flexible enough to
accept other ways. And it worries me if I press my ways and tell them that they
really have to try this, then in a concert I'm far too conscious. I'm not just
"doing it", I'm consciously doing it, it's not free.
I remember you once saying, and I've said it in many master classes when
people ask me about memory. It was on the day of your concert in Quebec and
somebody asked you: "Mr. Barrueco what do you do for your memory?"
and you said: "Rule number one: On the day of your concert, never talk
about memory!"
MB: Did I say that? That was pretty smart...
DR: I'm telling you I've used that - and even given you
credit for it - because I agree entirely. And also, if possible, not to have to
work on the piece either on a concert day.
MB: Another memory story: I was giving a lesson on how to
memorize to one of my students and in the middle of it I forgot what I was
saying! Next thing I know the student was on the floor laughing and of course I
didn't know why, so I asked him why he was laughing and he told me that I had
forgotten what I was saying...
[laughter]
MB continues: You have a very distinct style, there is a David Russell
Style. Where does that come from, what are the influences?
DR: This whole thing about a distinct style is a big
subject and I think maybe quite an important subject as each of us develop and grow
up or mature. I think it's quite difficult to develop your own style on
purpose. There are some young people who try to do it and they usually sound
quite cocky. You Manuel also have a very distinct style, I hear you on the
radio and I know it's you. That comes through familiarization, people hear you
often enough to recognize you. I don't think it's something that you can
consciously develop. You slowly become more and more aware of your own ways of
approaching a phrase, your own way of distinguishing a classical piece from a
baroque piece, how you make them different, how you approach cadences when you
go into a real romantic piece. Of course you do it just by feel at first, but
eventually there is a whole reasoning behind it. You are able to give reasons
as to why this note should be there or not.
Going back one step to answer your question of where my styles comes
from, I come from a very artistic family, my parents are artists and all my
brothers and sisters except one are artists. We lived like bohemians in a van
for years, moving around different places. When I went to study in London, I
was lucky to live in the basement of a violinist's house and I studied the
violin.
I think certainly some people have stronger personalities than others
and maybe the person that has a less obvious personality maybe needs to work on
it and think about it, find ways to develop it.
[To a student] If you think of Manuel and I, it's kind of strange,
Manuel comes from a Latin origin and then grew up in an English speaking
American culture, and I was the opposite, came from Scotland and then grew up
in a Latin place. All these little cross over things make you perhaps have a
wider range of experiences in terms of culture etc. We're both bilingual, and
all these things help you. The more varied your life experiences are, the more
you bring to your music.
MB: When I hear you teach, the musical terms and the
language you use, I don't hear it with other guitar teachers I've heard. Is
that something you've learned in the guitar world you've known, or is that
something you've acquired in other places?
DR: There are a whole lot of things that happen within a
master class. The whole psychology game with the student, specially because in
a master class you have the person for a very short time and you don't actually
know that person. You hope to find a little something you understand, or
something you can connect with. There are different ways of helping people and
the way it worked out today was through convincing them musically, because I
wasn't going to have time to help them directly technically. Does this make
sense?
MB: Oh, yes. But what I was referring to was that the way
you sounded to me was that you could have been any musician speaking about
music. That's not usually what I hear in the "guitar world".
DR: Well, I lived in London in a not very guitaristic
world for many years. But we have to be careful, there is certain amount of
Guitar Whipping, and I don't think that f. ex. the violinists are any better
because they are so mixed up in their own world, or the Horn players. I used to
play the French horn, my mother was married to a French horn player and they
are all caught up in their own world as well. Pianists don't listen to anything
but piano. In some ways they all suffer the same things we suffer. But if you
go to other master classes from other instruments, you hear them talk about
slightly different things but they also apply to us. So, what you're saying is
probably partly because I played these other instruments, because of the people
I was mixed up with in London, my interests at that time. That's probably the
reason more than anything.
F. Ex. I studied with José Tomás in Alicante, Spain, and that was great.
Very direct and very clear ideas. That's the way I'd like to be taught. He was
able to crucify me without depressing me and that for me is very important. He
was able to get to my problems and give me solutions. Teaching must be
positive, negative teaching is useless. Isn't it funny that if you play for somebody
and they say to you " You're slurs are not very good but your tremolo is
good" you go home and practice your tremolo whereas what you should be
practicing is your slurs! In my teaching I use as many things as I can
hopefully without depressing or pulling down the student, regardless of their
level or their talent.
MB: Do you think one can become musically knowledgeable
within the guitar world?
DR: I think you can. I think any one instrument can
become musically knowledgeable within that instrument. We tend to say:
"It's either a guitarist or a musician" and I don't feel that's quite
right, even though, of course, there is a certain amount of that. I think that
our little guitar world is something special, but I would like to encourage
guitarists to at least learn another instrument and have some experiences
actively in music that are not only with the guitar. At least play chamber music.
MB: If I told you that listening to your concert last
night I heard Segovia
in your playing, how would you react to that?
DR: For many many years I was kind of an imitation of Segovia. At the age of
14, I could hardly read music but I could play really badly Dance # 5 and 10 by
Granados, and Granada
and Sevilla by Albéniz. My father and I didn't really read music well, we
basically had taken the music from the records. He had all these 78rpm records
with Segovia. So, of course, I copied his interpretations as well. For many years
Segovia was my idol.
MB: Let me rephrase the question. If I told you that I
heard some qualities of Segovia in your playing, what do you think I was
referring to?
DR: Maybe about some moments in Torroba, but I really
don't know. You're going to have to tell me what you mean.
MB: What I mean by that is Segovia in his playing has a
sensuality, which can be heard in the more lyrical passages of your playing.
Does that make any sense to you?
DR: Yes, it does, it is something that I enjoy in his
playing. The word sensual almost implies sexual, and I think there is sometimes
almost a physical pleasure in music at times. I enjoy the way the notes are
almost tangible, you can see them shaking, growing, and that is something
Segovia did extremely well.
MB: I was curious to see if you would take my comment as
something negative, because a lot of people have criticized him.
DR: I think it's really important for our generation and
the next generation to find a different way, that is just as expressive and just
as sensual. There are many, many ways of being expressive. I know that I was
very influenced by Segovia and I had to take away some of that when I first
came to London, because I realized that basically all I did was copying him.
That's the way I had grown up.
MB: I was trying to put together in my head what it is
that I hear in your playing, as I mentioned, I hear these qualities that
Segovia had, like your warm sound, but at the same time you seem to have a very
modern training. I was wondering if it is this mixture that makes your style?
Nobody sits in a vacuum, we all pick from others. And also, there is nothing
wrong in saying to a student: "You should not sound like Segovia",
that is not necessarily a criticism of Segovia. If I was a painter and had a
student that was painting cubism I would say: "Listen, let's go on"
but it doesn't mean that I'm putting down Picasso because of it.
Segovia was great for his time and I think he is very unfairly
criticized.
It's very easy to criticize somebody's work. I think the problem is that
some people thought of him as being God, and when you compare him to God, of
course the guy falls short...
DR: You know, sometimes it's worthwhile consciously
copying exactly what somebody else has done in their phrases. When you copy
really consciously you actually have the physical experience of making the same
sounds and the same phrases and the same mixture of sounds and the same
balance. It's very difficult! Not just make a caricature, but really get as
close to what they've done to find out how they did it. I think you can learn
from that. When I got to London I was tired of the Segovia thing and then
suddenly it was Julian Bream! He was a big thing when I first got there. I
tried to copy it exactly the way he did it, where he made the sounds,I tried to
come as close as possible to what he did. For me it was a really good
experience.
MB: Did you have contact with Segovia at all?
DR: I played for him in Santiago de Compostela, Spain,
privately because I wasn't in the master class. He was very nice, wrote a
letter for me, and he said to me that when he was in London he wanted his wife
to listen to me. I was very flattered and a couple of months later when he came
to London I phoned him up and he told me to come the day after his concert. I
went there but there was no wife there! I played for him and he started to tell
stories which went on for a long time, over an hour. Then suddenly from the
bathroom we heard: "Cling, cling" you know the sound when you drop a
glass bottle in a sink it makes a lot of noise. Then Segovia suddenly said:
"Oh dear, you have to leave, my wife is in the bathroom..." so I left
and never met the wife! I can just imagine her saying that she didn't want to
hear another young guitarist, and went on to have a bath. He probably just
forgot about her... that must have been it because he was in the middle of
telling all these stories, he was all excited, it was great listening to him.
MB: So he was very helpful?
DR: Oh yes, very. He commented to other people about me
and was very nice. At that time I was moving out of London and I really didn't
take advantage of his help. I was pretty immature in some ways, like
business-wise, and I think I missed an opportunity there a little bit. He was
great, it was good for my ego.
MB: It's funny because as I was listening to you in your
concert I kept wondering what Segovia would have thought if he had heard you.
DR: He was great. I played him Capricho Diabolico by
Tedesco and some Ascencio music and some Granados...
MB: Did he ever write one of these letters about you?
DR: Yes.
MB: What did he say?
DR: He said "My congratulations for your guitaristic
technique..." or something like that, you know this stuff we all write...
Something about a guitaristic technique and musicality.
MB: Another thing I thought would be interesting for the
students to hear, because you said you had developed a lot between the age of
18-24.
DR: Some people mature much earlier both physically and
mentally. I lived until I was 14 or 15 in a village in Menorca, Spain, of 800
people, with no musical influence except for my family and Segovia's records
and the other records that my parents had. So, when I got to London I was way
behind in lots and lots of things. I could hardly read music, that was
ridiculous when I think about it, but I could play pretty well. But it took me
years to learn pieces because I did it just by ear, and sometimes by working
out - F A C E etc. on the finger board, it was really bad. So I had a lot of
catching up to do. Also, I grew at least 2 inches after the age of 18!
MB: Really?
DR: Yeah, [laughs...] So there were a whole lot of things that at the age of
18 I was way behind on. I see many people now at the age of 18 that play
better that I could at that age - and I see many 24 year olds that play partly
better that I could. By the age of 24 I think I more or less had it together,
even though I wasn't really ready. There were lots of things that were
unfinished, and lots of technique problems. It would be great if we were all
prodigies and could play the Chaconne by the age of 16 but that wasn't my case.
In some ways it gives me a certain attitude towards somebody who is 24 and is
still having certain problems, because I can sympathize with them. I have some
old tapes of myself of that time, they are ok, but there is a noticeable
difference between then and when I was maybe 28. At that time I think I started
to hit my level. At the age of 24 I won all these competitions, I was certainly
well enough prepared in comparison to some of the other people that were around
in those years, but nowadays there are lots of good players, the standard is
pretty high. [To the students] So don't give up hope, there is hope after the
age of 28. Also, you can become a wonderful musician without having an
incredibly rapid or incredibly agile technique. Certainly, more technique will
help you as long as your musical desire is in front of your technical desire. I
know some people who are technically limited, they don't have Manuel's technique
or whatever, but they can play really good concerts. So you need to find out
your limitations and your qualities, and show your qualities, develop your
qualities.
MB: I find that a lot of times people think that when you
are concertizing it's all glamor. One memory that I have is of seeing you in
Finland. I think you had flown from the US, went on to teach a master class,
and then you played a concert that night after having slept a little bit. Your
eyes were right on the floor, red, but you went on playing a hell of a concert.
Do you remember that?
DR: Thank you but I don't remember the concert.
MB: I guess what I'm driving at is that sometimes people
don't realize under what conditions one sometimes has to perform, and even on
our level it's very hard.
DR: Yes, for example last week, in 24 hours I played 3
concerts... two programs!
MB: How did you do that? I mean how did you fit it in 24
hours.
DR: Well, it was a evening concert, the day after a
mid-day concert and a evening concert!
MB: So which was the best one?
DR: Oddly enough, probably the last one. I was well
prepared, I worked very hard for it. The agents do all these deals for you, and
sometimes I'm not too careful as to what's happening. I should be more careful
because these things sometimes happen and you very often end up in a very
unglamorous situation... I played 4 concerts and taught one master class in a
couple of days. I'm sure you have had situations that are similar.
But I've done ones that are more glamorous - I have sat in the back seat
of a car practicing on my way to the golf course, played a round of golf and
then practiced on the way back and then I played a concert...
MB: Oh, you were that handsome guy in the back seat of
the Lexus?
DR: [Laughing] No, by the way, did you get to play golf
after your Lexus gig?
MB: No.
DR: But really, I didn't mean it as a joke! The last
concert I did in Seattle I really wanted to play golf with these friends, so I
sat in the car and practiced all the way to the golf course...
MB: I practice in the car all the time.
DR: Oh really?
MB: Yes, sometimes I just don't have time to do all the
things I have to do. The New Jersey Turnpike is polluted with my sounds. In
fact, when I did that commercial I was used to playing in the car because sometimes
it's the only time I get to practice!
Talking about glamorous, sometimes people say that so and so does 150
concerts a year, as if it was a great thing! To me it sounds like slavery, it
sounds insane! I guess it does represent a certain amount of success and a
certain number of trips to the bank you know, but other than that...
On a different note, what other recordings are you doing?
DR: I just finished a recording of Torroba that will be
coming out soon on Telarc. It's all the well known pieces except the Piezas
Caracteristicas.
MB: Do you like recording?
DR: Yes I like it more and more. I have had some bad
experiences and some good experiences. As time goes on I kind of remember more
the good experiences and forget about the bad ones. I'm basically positive,
which is why Phil wrote that piece called "The Good Luck" waltz, he
said "You're just such a lucky bugger". I've had some really horrible
recording experiences that I don't really like to remember, that were too hard or
too uncomfortable, f.ex. the recording of Tárrega. I had a great time even
though some of them were really difficult. So, I enjoy listening to it, it was
a good experience. The Torroba was a good experience. I'm really looking
forward to the record because it was a great couple of days.
MB: Where was the Torroba done?
DR: It was done in a place called Mechanics Hall in
Muster, Massachusetts. It was far too cold, about 18% humidity. I had to keep
on breathing on the guitar, cover it with wet towels, it was crazy, there were a
lot of extra difficulties, but I thought the playing experience was good. We
also lost hundreds of takes because of a bus-stop! Every time a bus would stop,
the rumble came through. During the Barrios one, hundreds of takes were also
lost with women with high heals walking past the hall. It came through - tack,
tack, tack, tack...
MB: So my final question: I'm told that your wife María
is getting fed up with all the trophies you are winning playing golf...
DR: (laughing) You know I'm much more proud of having won
the J&B Whiskey Championship for second year running, than my Barrios
record... I love playing golf. I love doing things outside. I used to play
tennis a lot, but tennis is not too good for your hands. It makes you a bit too
muscle bound. I can play golf all morning and play a concert in the evening it
doesn't really matter.
Δεν υπάρχουν σχόλια:
Δημοσίευση σχολίου